Cannabis: Education & Professional Training - Branding Bud Live Episode 37

July 27, 2023 David Paleschuck, MBA, CLS | Author & Cannabis Brand Expert

THE SUMMARY

As the cannabis market continues to grow, so does the demand for skilled professionals who possess a comprehensive understanding of the plant, its various applications, and the complex regulations governing its use. Skilled, knowledgeable employees and professional training are what make up real industries. Why should the cannabis industry be any different? Listen in to our in-depth conversation on "Cannabis: Education & Professional Training" with Kurt Kaufmann, CEO and Co-founder of Seed Talent. Gain valuable insights and better understand why training is so important for the industry.

THE CO-HOSTS

David Paleschuck, Adriana Hemans

THE SPECIAL GUEST

Kurt Kaufmann, CEO and Co-founder of Seed Talent

THE TRANSCRIPT

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Welcome to Branding Bud Live, the live stream that’s 100% THC and 0% WTF. Every week we speak with business people about the business of cannabis. I’m David Paleschuck, founder of Branding Bud Consulting Group and author of the first book on cannabis branding. I’m joined by my co-host Adriana Hemans, Director of Marketing at Green Meadows and my BCF (Best Cannabis Friend). Hi Adriana!

ADRIANA HEMANS

Hi David. Thank you for that intro. I’m so excited to co-host the show with you. We’re bringing amazing guests from across the cannabis ecosystem to share their perspectives. My favorite thing about Branding Bud Live is that we focus on building community - and we encourage audience participation. It’s not just about us talking, it’s about all of us building something together. So feel free to drop your questions and/or opinions in the chat, and we’ll share them too.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

We’re here to build community, educate and entertain … so let’s jump into today’s show, "Cannabis: Education & Professional Training". Today, we’ll be chatting with Kurt Kaufmann, CEO and Co-founder of Seed Talent. Gain valuable insights and better understand why training is so important for the industry. Some of the topics we’ll cover are:

What are the key challenges faced by professionals seeking training in the cannabis sector?
What are the most in-demand skills & certifications employers are seeking in the industry?
How has the landscape of professional training in cannabis evolved over the past few years?

I’m super excited to chat with Kurt today.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Me too!

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Let’s welcome, Kurt Kaufmann.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Tell us about yourself, Kurt. What are you passionate about?

KURT KAUFMANN

So about myself. And you know, as David was saying, so I'm co-founder and CEO of Seed Talent, and had been in the cannabis industry for about a little over six years now. And, you know, in terms of, I guess, you know, kind of what I'm passionate about within this space, I'm really passionate about the fact that I truly believe that we are laying the groundwork or the foundation for what will be the future of cannabis. And you know, starting on the plant touching side, it was really obvious how many great folks came with great passion, great transferable skills, but there's a fundamental lack in some of the cannabis specific knowledge to really add value to the space. And so we launched the talent about three years ago, to focus on more than just compliance, as you guys mentioned, but really, how do we instill the skill sets throughout the industry that are going to create best in class patient and customer experiences? And that is what is kind of the lifeblood of what we try to do.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Why is education in cannabis important, what makes it more challenging that traditional industries?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, I think it's a pretty new Last, you know, question and I think, you know, similar to how you guys let in I think a lot of times when folks are coming from traditional industries, and I guess, you know, a little bit more background I've been in, you know, CPG my entire professional career. I started with Altria group; I was in the motorcycle industry for a number of years. And it's interesting, because I think, you know, going from CPG, in terms of like, you know, moving chips, or alcohol, or cigarettes, or whatever it may be to motorcycle, I've seen more parallels in the motorcycle space than I have in, you know, in some of those traditional CPGs into cannabis, because it's such a passion based industry. And for folks to truly utilize the plant to its greatest extent, you have to have education, you have to understand. And so I think some of the nuances and things that make it different is, this was a federally illegal substance, the folks who have education in this space are coming in sometimes and needing reeducation because the education that their buddy told them, their drug dealer told them, they may be learned from a YouTube video or whatever it may be, or a Reddit thing, it needs to be re taught. And then equally is I think important is how that trickles down to the interaction with the consumer, the patient, actually, at the retail level, a lot of those folks are coming in with really minimal experience or again, you know, historical experience that may not be rooted, in fact, and I think we see some of these trickle downs as it relates to some of the challenges the industry faces today, as it relates to price compression, in a number of markets. I truly believe that's rooted in a lack of education throughout the entire supply chain, from literally the grower down to the consumer. And even things like high turnover, we see states that have 70% plus, you know, in their turnover. And when you actually start to interview some of those folks that are leaving those organizations, it's a feeling of lack of support and lack of education, it's a feeling of lack of confidence in their ability to do their role, or the lack of insight that they're able to have into their professional journey, which oftentimes they're being told is as a result of, you know, lack of experience or lack of education, keeping them from that next level. So I think there's our industry is so nuanced in so many different ways. And there's so many different things that vary state by state. But a lot of the challenges I think that we're facing in this chapter of the of the cannabis industry is rooted back to lack of education.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Yeah, and there's also a need to relearn because the science is constantly changing to like, we're still learning new things about the plant and what it can do. So yeah, like that education component is important. And typically, like David and I were chatting with right before you came on, there's an emphasis on compliance, right? Because you have to train your employees on certain things. So what's different about those, like compliance training platforms and what you're doing, Kurt?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, and so we took a little bit of a different approach when we came into this space. And, you know, compliance is key, but compliance is the thing you have to do, right, your employees have to take that federal compliance training or state compliance training, or whatever it may be. But I think, you know, where we need to go is, what are the things we should be doing, and what we shouldn't be doing is again, teaching on the history of cannabis and the impact on, you know, just disproportionately affected communities so that when folks are talking about social equity and social equity change, you know, within these markets, that it's rooted in common education and understanding, you know, we talk about sales techniques and selling, you know, selling within the chain. And that's something that we really emphasize, as we work with so many different brands on how to sell their products. There's kind of this stigma, if you will, within the space that selling cannabis is bad, we shouldn't sell we shouldn't feel pushy. But I think one of the things that I often remind folks is, you know, if you were in the traditional space, before legalized cannabis, I think one of the challenges is who is guiding these consumers along their cannabis journey. And I like to use the example of concentrates. Where if somebody, if the person I bought flour from back in the day, didn't recognize and say, hey, you know, you consume a lot of weed, you should try concentrates, I never would have gone on that journey. And I've been a weekly, most oftentimes daily, you know, concentrate consumer up until that point. And so a lot of the stuff that we emphasize is going beyond just those traditional box checking, and really starting to move to how do we implement the soft skills throughout this space, so that the folks coming in with great cannabis knowledge, learn the customer service, the sales skills, you know, those things that are going to bring folks back to our store, and the folks coming from traditional, you know, Walgreens CPG, whatever it may be, are learning the cannabis specific knowledge that they can actually be those trusted guides for patients and consumers at retail. And so I do just think it's a fundamental shift. And that's one of the big challenges that we've had is when we approach and talk with folks, they think of education as this box, they're checking, even on the brand side, okay, they've done education. Now let's focus on the real work. But what we're seeing is the ability to sell on value that utility divided by price, those things that maintain that that price, that's going to create a sustainable industry for all of us to have jobs. is rooted into the fact that people can't just commoditize this plant, they actually have to understand the nuances. And that starts from the people creating brands, are you actually adding value to the space? Are you actually going in and understanding the plant and the plant sciences and your cultivation techniques or whatever it may be all the way down to when the consumer walks in the door? Are they saying what's on sale? Or I want the highest THC for lowest dollar? Or are they being guided on that journey that's going to ultimately give them the best experience with this plant that they can.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

You know, it's interesting, you see that, as you were saying that to know about how fast the industry is evolving. Now, one of the things that came up to my mind was, you know, this fallacy about indica, sativa and hybrid and, Nick, you call it out, by the way, thanks for jumping from clubhouse over to LinkedIn, so you can participate. But it's true, you know, there's, there's so much that was changing. You can even the words we use, you know, I often get caught up in that, you know, like, we shouldn't be calling strains cultivars, we should be using scientific terms that relate to other industries and other, you know, to science is really what it comes down to. You know, Nick also brings out a point of not being able to train everybody that comes through the door. You know, I think one of the last hits that reports that I read about bud tender churn was 50% of the bud tenders leave within the first month, and another 50% Leave in the second one. And while that sounds dramatically high to me, and again, I haven't compared it to let's say, somebody who works at McDonald's to see what their churn rate is. It's interesting to see this, and it's interesting and important to keep everybody up to speed. So the fun tender, which is really the front lines of cannabis consumption, you know, that they're informed, and they can share the word with the consumers as well.

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, absolutely. Let me touch on that, I mean, I think one of the things that's interesting is, you know, doesn't have time as a relative state, right? It's like, are we creating time? Are we creating an environment that when we welcome those folks into the space, and I think one of the challenges that we hear right is, is a lot of folks even, you know, if you're coming from a professional role, or whatever, a lot of people say, well, but 10 is a good spot to get your foot in the door. But then those folks are inundated as soon as they start, you know, get behind the counter, try to start selling and to next point, you know, there's not often time that that's allocated. And I think that starts back with the retailer and retail leadership and ownership, we have the privilege of working with some great groups that are really focused on how we create best in class experiences. And I think one of the things that we've been able to do through some of our offerings, including our Data driven Learning offering, is starting to connect to the retail leadership, that these things are not inconveniences, right? If you're, you know, if you're doing a compliance training, or here, that might be an inconvenience, if you're enabling, and we talk a lot about employee enablement versus employee training, if you're enabling your employees to have success, have autonomy, stay within the right confines. But again, upsell, cross sell, do those different types of things. And you as a retail leader can connect back that that's actually leading to higher average ticket sizes, more customers, returning those types of things, people will make the time. And so I think that's one of the things that it's education, and I don't want to get overly political, but education has, in my opinion, one of the greatest trickle down effects of anything that we can do. And we see that bear out in a number of developing countries that have prioritized education of their folks. And then 510 years later, the games are given in spades. And that's one of the things that drives the passion that we have for our space now, because we are so early. I think some of us, you know, I'm six years, David, I know you're a lot longer than that, in this space, you feel like you're kind of like, oh, shit, you know, we've been doing this, you know, a long time, maybe it’s written in stone already. But I think there's just so much opportunity for us to change the mindset. And then even as it relates to sativa indica hybrid like, and, you know, educating that those are true genus species of the cannabis plant. Now through stream degradation. The fact is that though everything is a hybrid, the other component that then ties into that is how do we teach people how to read lab reports? Are we making those lab reports accessible at retail? Are our brand partners making those lab reports accessible to those retail partners to make accessible then to the consumer, and that's where this becomes, again, a really interesting, nuanced conversation. Because if you're educating on all those things, some of these other like, oh, shoot moments that are happening as we look at some of these conversations, actually, again, are very solvable if we kind of shift the mindset a bit on it.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Yeah, you make a great point. So, you know, I'm curious, when should brands start thinking about incorporating education into their trade developments strategies? Is it ever too early to do that?

KURT KAUFMANN

No. And I actually think it's a great exercise for brands to do even before they decide they're going to start a brand. I actually, earlier today, I ran into a gal who recently won a license here in Illinois. We're Chicago based, but ran into her just happened to be when I was out grabbing lunch, and she's, you know, just getting things set. And she actually asked that same question. And I said that it's in our experience, it's actually a really nice exercise for the brand leaders and brand partners to sit down before they even decide they're going to launch a brand and say, Who are we? What are our products, features and benefits? Why should the bud tender care? What is that positioning within the market that we're going to approach? And how are we going to differentiate that sale? That's ultimately what good training is, right? Because you're preparing that person, when the customer walks in and says, I'm looking for something to help me sleep. Okay, this is the brand we have. This is why their products are, what their products are features and benefits. This is why it's going to relieve your you know, concern or help with your ailment. And this is ultimately why I think you should buy it today. And so it's one of those things where it's, I don't ever think it's too early. I don't think it's ever too early to start thinking even beyond just education. What is your trade development strategy? Are you doing trade programs? How are you getting out and go into market? Because I think there what we've seen over the last couple of years, is there are too many brands that are undifferentiated going after the same consumer with limited differentiation. And we'll run into that with our brand partners where they'll will say so what makes your stuff special? Well, it's harvested by hand and made with love. Well, that isn't something that we can really sell to a consumer because everything else is harvested by hand. And I would think most people will say that's made with love. So I it's a long answer to us just say I don't think it's ever too early to start thinking about how you're going to position.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Yeah, totally agree. You have to be different out there. I want to say hi to some folks who have rolled in as we've been talking. Thanks, Kim for dropping another example of some terminology. That's a little outdated adult use versus recreational. I know I sometimes fall into that habit. I'm trying to train myself out of it. It's kind of a hard habit to break. So thanks for your comment. And I want to say hi to Caleb, who I think is in our grow room right now. While we're here talking about the plant. He's actually growing some plants, which is great. Thanks for your comments, everyone. And then I have a question for Kurt, which is about you see a lot of dispensaries using kiosks instead of bud tenders. So what impact does that have on the consumer experience?

KURT KAUFMANN

I almost feel like I need to Venmo whoever asked that question. Because that is, I think presents an existential risk to what the industry can be. Will it be fine? Will things figure itself out? Absolutely, yes. But I think one of the things that has made cannabis so special to me is the community that we build around cannabis. And I think there's so many opportunities for commoditized products to go on an E commerce site to go in and hit a button on a kiosk and just, you know, spit out whatever it may be. But cannabis, again, I know everybody's interactions with cannabis are different. And you know, at some point, Nick, maybe we can, you know, address the question that you had there as well. But I think kiosks are in efficiency, that in certain high volume situations Friday, Saturday night, when we're trying to move as many folks through the line as possible. They make sense. There's some great tech partners that are out, you know, on the kiosk front, and I certainly don't want to discourage if that is the right model for your business. But I think there's a lot of folks that are yearning for community around cannabis. And I think as we look at legalization, it's one of the biggest challenges that our industry I don't think talks about enough is how do we facilitate and incubate community so that folks don't just come in just buy flour, just buy that eighth leave and be mediocre happy with it to one of the questions that was in the chat. The challenge that we have to overcome and where community really becomes special is everyone's endocannabinoid system is different. And if we have the really those willingly well-educated folks behind the counter, we have best in class brands that meet these different needs. The right way to sell product is not to say this will make you go to sleep. It's to say off commonly, you know, off my experience experiences of folks around we've commonly seen that this will promote sleep, but I'm not just going to sell you this heavy indica flower. I'm going to sell you this heavy indica flower, I'm going to sell you the CBN gummy, I'm going to sell you this transdermal patch and I'm going to sell you this tincture to put in your tea before you go to bed. And let's titrate and try to figure out what we can find that truly works for you. That's not going to happen at a kiosk. And I've started to see AI bud tenders and these different things. AI has to be trained by a large data set. The challenge with that is where is that dataset coming from? And is that data set based off of what people should be buying? Or is it based off of what people have been buying based off of availability?

DAVID PALESCHUCK

So I'm curious, you know, we joked about compliance initially. But as we talk about training in the cannabis industry, how does it vary from sector to sector? And when I say sector to sector, I'm talking about cultivation, retail sales, distribution, or even research, how does that training differ?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah. So I think, you know, just at a high level, we see a lot more standardized training on the retail side, customer service focus, this is our sales process go. I've seen a lot more challenges on like the cultivation side, because, you know, growing cannabis is not a science, it's a combination of science and art. And we've seen a lot of groups try to try to put in just pure SOPs, and that's going to fix it. But the true grape growers are the folks who can nuance and ebb and flow within those SOPs. And so a lot of the times, I would say what we're seeing just high level is consistent training, there's, you know, different certificate programs, there's colleges starting to offer these things. The challenge I always encourage is like look into who that educator is, look into the efficacy of whether or not that certificate is leading to better on the job performance. And we're doing some things that I'm really excited about with Nam See, which is the National Association of marijuana and cannabis educators to try to provide a little bit more definition to what quality training on particularly that front end should look like. And then on the on the cultivation side, I think there are places offering certificate programs. And I think you can learn a lot from some of the groups that are out there. But what I'm really hoping that we start to see more of is more trade schools and apprenticeship programs, as it relates to cultivation. That doesn't seem to be something that's really become very popular yet. And I think that that is a bummer. It mimics a shift we're seeing in the broader economy, which is college enrollment is down, because the efficacy of whether or not college degrees are actually you know, leading to higher wages and those things, it's just not bearing out. And so what we're starting to see is more of a shift to trade programs, apprenticeships on the on the job training. And that's where I think those types of things and around cultivation and whatnot. That's kind of that that the difference that I'm seeing within that space.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Yeah, we're seeing a lot of that too. And we did an episode actually with Marianne kurta G and I'm blanking on the name of our other guests. I'm so sorry. But yeah, we were talking about how to your point exactly like college enrollment is down. So what are they doing? They're starting to like embrace, you know, different programs that students really have a hunger for. My mom is a professor at a college in upstate New York. She's Chair of the Art Department, they're launching a cannabis cultivation program. And I've spoken at a cannabis business class and the students are so passionate and so excited for the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something that's still being built. So I think that's really cool. And I also want to thank Nick for his for his suggestion on keeping a cannabis log. That's so helpful. My husband and I have a whole spreadsheet of concentrates. And we get super nerdy with it. And it's really helpful. So let's do our audience. It's been a second since and I feel like people are warmed up. So this stat is from our friends over at brightfield who have generously supplied us with some amazing data, both on cannabis use THC, minor cannabinoids, so many things that they're collecting data on from 1000s of consumers on a quarterly basis. This stat is from q1 2023. And the sample size is 5000. What age group is most likely to consume CBD on a daily basis? Is it a Gen Z, B, millennials, see Gen X or D baby boomers, you have a 25% chance, even if you're just putting in a random guess. So don't be shy and drop your guests in the chat. I should mention too, like I am not a huge fan of marketing based on generation I think like life stages is much more telling. But it does make kind of a fun stat. So we dropped it in here anyway:

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Audience. It's your chance to shine!

ADRIANA HEMANS

It's baby boomers, which is answer number D, even though I haven't labeled C here. Sorry about that. It's number D and Nick got it right. Marco got it. Right. Kim got it. Right. And Caleb got it right. Good job. They are slightly higher than the average cannabis consumer, who consumed CBD 21% consumed CBD on a daily basis. 26.5% of baby boomers consume CBD on a daily basis. Fun Fact of the Day.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

That's right. And thank you to brightfield for that. We've got I've got another question. I've got a ton of questions for you. Correct. But are there any specific training programs designed to support diversity, equity and Inclusion?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, this is a topic of yeah, that's, you know, we've done a lot of support with giving a lot of our services away for folks in the local Illinois community, but minority cannabis academy or association, out and I believe they're in New Jersey or Massachusetts, New Jersey, they have a lot of programs that are focused on social equity folks. Cleveland School of cannabis has done a lot of stuff through Viola's scholarship program, excuse me. But it's interesting, I think that's, you know, there's a lot of opportunity, you know, at the community college level that some of those folks are getting scholarships on that we've seen, you know, even brands, good green, green, green thumbs brand, good. Green has sponsored some scholarships and whatnot on the social equity front. And yeah, so I think it's an emerging thing. And I also would encourage, if there's other educators that are on the call, if you're taking a look at your curriculum, and your curriculum does not include history and impacts on historically marginalized communities, that was one of the things that was really shocking for me, when we launched our business, we give a lot of our training away for free, I mean, you can sign up today and get over six hours of free cannabis foundations training. But we were one of the first groups that led the first two modules are all history of cannabis and impact, you know, black and brown communities impacts on LGBTQ plus and the fact that we would not have a cannabis program if it was not for both of those communities. And that was one of the things that just seemed to be a glaring gap. And so I think, as educators are examining their curriculums, particularly with the things that are going around in some of the state curriculums outside of cannabis, emphasizing and making sure folks really understand the history of where this plant has come from, and the fact that it's not a nice to have, but a must have, as it relates to, you know, reconciling what has been just absolute Devon's devastation into certain communities as a result of this. It's something that I'm really passionate about. And I think there's a big opportunity for more programs within the space. And there's also a big opportunity for those folks that unfortunately, I've heard a lot of folks that look like me complain about social equity programs and states. And those are just huge opportunities to just educate, because what we're seeing is that people aren't educated on that. And, you know, it leads to just so much more, you know, infighting within the space, because it's just based on this lack of understanding of how this industry actually evolved. And Harry Anslinger, and all that different stuff that that got us where we are today. So again, long answer to say that there are a few folks that are out there focused on that. I definitely think a huge opportunity for more. And if you are a successful cannabis business, looking for places to put your money, finding ways to get more folks from historically marginalized communities back into this space is a good spot to put those dollars.

ADRIANA HEMANS

I love the emphasis on history. I think that's so important. And there's so many interesting stories to be told there. Kurt so we talked about like the impact of education on brands and how that can help with sell through and help to have a more personalized experience for the consumer. But I'm interested in what happens like at the individual level When someone takes on an education program, like how does that help their career? How does that help them evolve their career in the industry?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is one of the things that the industry has a real opportunity to do better, which is, you know, help connect education attainment, to better career pathways. I think there's a lot of folks across the country that, you know, I'm sure we've all interacted with them where you walk in, and they do know their stuff, and they really understand it, but they're not getting paid more, they're not necessarily getting promoted more. And so I think that's some of the work that we're trying to do with some of our larger partners has helped them connect the monetary benefit to the business, to the individual performance, such that they can then justify paying those folks more and advancing them within the within their roles. But we've had a lot of folks who have taken on that responsibility personally, I mean, we have folks that have hundreds of courses completed on our platform, and we get messages literally weekly, from folks saying, this is the first time I've had an opportunity to gut check my, you know, own personal experience against the sciences, there was a comment earlier about everybody's body being different. And so I think, to me that the personal impact comes in confidence. And confidence leads to so many amazing things. It leads to you having better interactions with your patients and customers, it creates better interactions between wholesalers and retail partners, it allows me just like freedom within your role comes from confidence. And I think it also allows you to create more career autonomy and mobility for yourself, if you're able to really prove and justify that you do know more. And that more translates to higher performance on the job. We've started to really see some folks I mean; we get folks when they leave their roles, who reach out and ask for their, their full transcript of everything they've done in the platform. Because they're using that as a differentiator when they go in that they're not just another person who likes to smoke weed, but they're, they've actually put in the time to differentiate. And so, you know, I think it's a challenge that's still there. We need to do a better job as an industry monetarily rewarding people that are putting in that work. But there's a lot of intrinsic benefit to those folks right out of the gate.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

We touched upon this a little bit earlier, and just in terms of the, this the education system that, you know, that we currently live in, and probably many of us have experienced, how, how is the traditional education system? You know, jumping in, you mentioned a couple of schools Candidate School or Cleveland, Cleveland. School of cannabis. Yeah, yeah. Could you just talk a little bit more about that, and how mainstream and Adriana mentioned, you know, SUNY program, upstate New York, how, how are they jumping in? How are they handling this?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, I think I think it's mixed. And I think that this is the challenge right now, if you're a consumer of education you're looking at to go buy a program or things like that, is how are you really evaluating the efficacy of that, because what we're seeing is, schools that are just throwing up a program, they're buying, you know, some off the shelf training from an online provider, they're, you know, marking it up three times the price, and then they're reselling it to, you know, just Joe Average consumer who's not necessarily really understanding that. And then we're seeing other groups where they're really trying to partner with industry professionals, they're trying to bring in thought leaders into the space and really create robust curriculums. I think that, personally, it's going to be a real challenge for traditional higher education to participate in the short term in cannabis education, only from the standpoint that traditional higher education is really rooted in tenured professors who have, you know, peer reviewed research who have these different types of standards that aren't necessarily as conducive to the pace of innovation that we see in our space. And that's where a lot of times when we'll talk with larger enterprises or even smaller groups, and they're like, well, we just want to buy some training, we just want to buy some training. I caution against that, because oftentimes, that training isn't exactly how you guys want things done at your store, you and your business, or oftentimes, particularly around video based training as it can become quickly outdated as research continues to happen. I mean, a lot of folks don't know that, you know, the research capital of cannabis is in Israel. And there is research that's coming out of that literally, monthly quarterly. And you know that type of stuff we as an industry need to buy into, and we need to also accept that when the when the research comes out that something, we had been training on is no longer accurate, that that's not necessarily a sign of a failure. It's a sign of research and movement. And I say all that to say that if folks are on the call thinking about taking further cannabis education, I would really encourage you to be very juicy It's just in your selection process of who you're going to go to, for that education, really understand their credentials. Look at, you know what literature is out there branding, but is literally sitting right here. Oh, there you go. Because like, for me, it's a lot easier to learn from the folks that are have done the work that are doing the work actively. And that's where again, we get back to some of those trade programs and journeyman programs and things like that, as me believing that's the right path. But Cleveland School of cannabis as a reference, just to touch on that. They are a cannabis specific institution, tie Russell and I have, I initially will maybe thought were competitors in certain ways. And I've really built a bond over national association of marijuana and cannabis educators. It's a growing group that includes, you know, marijuana for one, one Trichome Institute, a lot of these different kind of legacy operators, that have been training coming together to say that, hey, we as an industry need to come. And we need to be the ones to set standards, otherwise, the colleges will come in and they'll set their own standards, or we're even starting to see staffing firms come in and try to set their own standards. And that creates a really, really dangerous dynamic for both the consumers of the education, as well as the people who are ultimately going to be the ones bearing the brunt of that lack of education, which is our consumers and patients.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

I have sat in on meetings at colleges that were preparing candidates program, and realized very quickly that many of the groups and departments are at odds with each other. For example, the law department might not feel comfortable, either teaching cannabis law or have the same facts that the cannabis business department has. So, getting everybody in traditional education on the same page to understand that these things go through the school, and that the students take away with that was really important that I don't think they're quite there yet. So I agree with you, when you say that industry specific training is this really the right way to go.

ADRIANA HEMANS

My father always used to say that people go to college not to learn facts, but to learn how to think. And to your point current that makes a lot of sense in the context of something that's constantly evolving. And you mentioned a second ago, like training videos and for and how they would need to be updated all the time. And for like a small or midsize company, that's a huge expense. So it doesn't really make sense for them to take that on. But they still need to train their employees somehow. And then, you know, since we were talking about like midsize companies, and what's going on, like, economically and how companies are reacting to that. I'm curious, if you think that price compression, what we're seeing can be offset with some additional education.

KURT KAUFMANN

Without a doubt. Yeah. And that's like, particularly recognizing that a lot of this audience may be coming from the branding or marketing side. I think one of the big, big things on that is price compression is gutting our industry. At some point, we have to wake up, and I look at states, you know, and I'll pick on Arizona a little bit, I've spent a lot of time down there, if you go down there, there's billboards for buy one, get five, free, you know, BOGO up to the wazoo. Those are really, really bad signs. Because it's very easy to sell on price, it's a lot harder to get somebody to understand the value of what they're buying. And that all leads back to education. And I want to touch on your point on midsize and smaller groups in the expense around education, is there a really cost effective ways to do it, you know, and again, I'm biased a little bit, you know, towards e learning as it relates to scale, and it relates to consistency. But if I talk to a partner who says, Hey, we just don't have it in our budget, today, I'm more than happy to coach on what you should be training on what you should be doing in person, so that you get your business to the point that you can then provide consistency. And that's, that's the big thing with digital learning that is an advantage is consistency, and reach and accessibility. You know, we've got some courses that have started to be translated into Spanish, you can access digital learning 24/7. And you know that it's a consistent message. It's not, you know, Suzy called in sick. And you know, so now we're not doing training this week. And then, you know, oh, shoot, we didn't do training. And so I think price compression is a big, big piece of the puzzle that we need to solve. And to me, it really gets back to how do we get people selling good, better best, and you need to supply that information to be able to transition somebody up and down that chain.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Let’s jump into our second audience participation. This one's a little bit sillier This is called strain your brain and I always struggle now with the word strain. So maybe cultivate your brain but your interest, Ryan, so we went with it. Which one of these cultivar names is fake? Is it A. zombie pie? B. WIFI Hoe. C. WIFI Pie, or D. None of the above? Let's see how much our audience knows about cannabis cultivators.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Well, while we're waiting for people to chime in, Kurt, what's your thought on this?

KURT KAUFMANN

Well, I know that I've seen a lot of Wi Fi oh, gee, and there's a couple of Wi Fi strains that are out there. Pie hoe I don't necessarily love that. So I'm going to guess pi hoe. But I don't know that to be to be the case. They could all be in I'm starting to see that come in, in the chat here.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

All of a sudden, I'm in the mood for blueberry pie for some reason. And wonder why?

KURT KAUFMANN

The cultivars and strain thing is Oh, is an interesting thing to talk about where, you know, yes, there's a right and wrong and that you know, some of that stuff to a certain extent, depending on you get at it. But those are some of those things where it's like, nobody gets hurt by saying strain versus cultivar. And I do point out that sometimes there's a, there's a little bit of an arrogance that's happening and also in cannabis education, where it's like, I know this and this is how you should be saying that, I think we have you know, Michael, in cannabis is we should be creating as big of a tent as possible not to use that kind of silly euphemism. But like, by sometimes, you know, shaming people for saying the wrong things, or even referring things say indica, sativa. Hybrid, those are just opportunities to educate and then some stuff again, if somebody says training, uh, you know what they're mean, even though you prefer this cultivar it's easier to rhyme with let's go with strain.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Let's jump to the answer.

ADRIANA HEMANS

There we go. Not so many people got it.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

That's right. That's right. We do. And, and I appreciate that. I'm such a stickler for words. Correct. But you're right!

ADRIANA HEMANS

I have one quick question for Kurt. And that is about employers, when they're looking through resumes, do they prioritize people with training for hiring?

KURT KAUFMANN

I think this gets back to some of the earlier answer is the challenge is so many of the training programs are not netting out to actual value for the employer creating a better employee. That there, unfortunately, not as much and I think, again, like you know, like a lot of things. You know, there's a lot of people out trying to make money. I mean, I saw a $50, one hour master grower class, advertised on Instagram, and it for 50 bucks, you can help me get my home grow in order. I guess I'll take it. But so no, I a lot of the employers we're talking about, are not emphasizing some of that education prior to starting, what they're looking for is in the interview process. are you demonstrating a really strong understanding versus just having that certificate? Again, that's some of the stuff we're working on with Nancy, but not as much yet, as we would hope.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Kurt, do you have any future predictions, relative to the cannabis industry and education or training and knowledge?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yeah, I mean, I've been saying this in a couple of different things I've been doing that I my prayers, plead to God is that we transition to value that the future of cannabis is value driven. And I think oftentimes people think of value as cheap value again as utility divided by price. Are we as brands that are creating products driving value to our consumers? Are we as retail partners driving value to the consumers and patients who walk through the door? Are we as tech partners in this space as education partners in this space, providing value? I think gone are the days of cannabis just being you know, a green rush anybody who comes in is going to make a quick buck and the transition is either not good, or a transition to a focus on value. And if you cannot clearly articulate the value that you provide in this industry. I encourage a swift exit because I believe that the future of ours pace is going to be dependent on all participants recognizing the importance of the value that they put out into this market.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Very well said. Kurt, thank you so much for joining us today. I always joke about how the show is the fastest 45 minutes of my week. We truly thank you for what you do when you bring to the industry. And we need more people like that saying, Where can people find you? And fights find see talent?

KURT KAUFMANN

Yes, absolutely. And before I say that, I want to thank both of you. I've had the pleasure of getting to meet you, David over the years, and I think you're truly best in class. And Adriana, I'm excited for this to be where we've met and continue to grow the relationship. But what you guys are doing is also truly best in class and providing a lot of value for folks that that have interest in Seed Talent, www.seedtalent.com. Don't hesitate to connect with me on LinkedIn. If there's anything that we talked about today that piqued your interest, truly connect shoot a DM, I'm somebody who actually responds on LinkedIn. But our website has all our contact information. You can certainly find us on socials, and I'm just very appreciative of the opportunity to speak with everybody today.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Thank you so much, Kurt.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Thank you, Kurt!

DAVID PALESCHUCK

Well, we've got an amazing show. Coming up next week. Our show is with Jordan Eisenstaedt, and Jordan is has joined us at Jordan. Jordan, if we didn't say hello to you. We will be chatting next week with Jordan. He is the Senior Vice President at Marino. And we'll be chatting about “When Cannabis PR Becomes Cannabis Crisis Management” – which seems a little too often these days.

ADRIANA HEMANS

Lots of crises happening these days in our industry.

DAVID PALESCHUCK

That's right! And we'll have a list. We'll be chatting through some of those things. And how do PR firms help the cannabis industry through our trials and tribulations, as well as just straight-up promotion. We're super excited about that.

ADRIANA HEMANS

We just dropped a link in the chat for next week’s episode. Hit that button to register so you don’t miss it. If you miss us in the meantime, you can re-watch today’s episode, or any of our previous episodes, on our LinkedIn page, Branding Bud Live, or on our YouTube channel. Please give us a follow on LinkedIn to stay on top of everything Branding Bud Live. Please check us out there if you've missed any of our previous episodes.

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DAVID PALESCHUCK

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Thank you everybody!

ADRIANA HEMANS