THE SUMMARY

Just a few years ago, the cannabis industry was gearing up, full of confidence for a bright future with immense growth potential. Companies were hiring, expanding production, and exploring mergers & acquisitions, while the stigma around cannabis declined, propelling legalization efforts in new markets.

THE CO-HOSTS

David Paleschuck, Adriana Hemans

THE SPECIAL GUEST

Kim Prince, Principal, Proven Media

THE FULL TRANSCRIPT

David Paleschuck 

Welcome to Branding Bud Live, the live stream that’s 100% THC and 0% WTF.  Every week we speak with business people about the business of cannabis. I’m David Paleschuck, founder of Branding Bud Consulting Group and author of the first book on cannabis branding. I’m joined by my co-host Adriana Hemans, a Marketing executive with over 8 years in the cannabis space. Hi Adriana!

Adriana Hemans 

Hi David. Thank you for that intro. I’m so excited to co-host the show with you. We’re bringing amazing guests from across the cannabis ecosystem to share their perspectives. What makes our show unique is that we focus on building a community - and we encourage audience participation. It’s not just about us talking, it’s about all of us building something together. So feel free to drop your questions and/or opinions in the chat, and we’ll share them too.

David Paleschuck 

Thank you, Adriana. And thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We have a lot of hot topics to get into today We have a lot of hot topics to get into today. In an industry defined by fragmented state markets and increasing competition, today, we’ll be talking about “When Cannabis Public Relations Becomes Cannabis Crisis Management”. Specifically, we’ll be discussing:

• What are the goals & objectives of public relations in cannabis?

• How closely tied are public relations and crisis management in cannabis?

• What are some of the precautions cannabis companies can take to avoid or better handle a crisis?

Our guest today is  Kim Prince, Principal of Proven Media based in Phoenix, AZ. Her firm was named one of the Top 5 Most Powerful Cannabis PR. Kim serves as the director of public relations for the Marijuana Industry Trade Association, and as a board member of the Arizona Cannabis Chamber of Commerce.

We also have audience participation activities as well. We’ll throw a stat up on the screen, so you can test your industry knowledge. We’ll be sharing a few stats with you today, we think you’ll find interesting, so please stick around for the entire show.

Adriana Hemans 

Hi Kim!

Kim Prince

Hello. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk with the two of you!

Adriana Hemans 

Hi Kim. Welcome. You’ve been in the cannabis industry for a number of years. Tell us about yourself and what you’re passionate about.

Kim Prince 

Well, gosh, that's a question I don't get asked very often. But again, thank you for having me. I've been in PR for quite a few years, we my firm is proven media. As a firm, we pivoted into cannabis in 2014. So we started with one account. And we worked our way really to the top. So currently, we work with primarily all cannabis companies with the exception of a financial advisor. We work with licensed cannabis companies as well as ancillary brands. So strategically, what our firm does is help clients in the industry in that vertical, create communications plan strategic communications plan for themselves. It's as much as creating a marketing plan. We would like plans to have communications plan as well. So that's kind of what we do. Personally. I work a lot. My life No, just kidding.

David Paleschuck 

Hi Kim. Let’s start off with the basics, What are the goals & objectives of public relations in cannabis? And does it differ from non-cannabis PR?

Kim Prince 

Yes, yes, thank you. You know, PR is a function of marketing communications. So really, what we try to do is incorporate what we consider a company's pay. So model, it's there. It's a combination, a mix of media, or mix of marketing functions, marketing, communications, functions, it's paid media, earned media, shared media, and owned media. So in a nutshell, David, the way that we look at it in one sentence is, if you don't control your reputation, someone else will. In cannabis, it's challenging. As you said, geographically speaking, federal legalization, there's so many hurdles to getting a message out. But that makes it more like solving a puzzle and actually more fun for our team. As you as you look at getting your message out in a in a marketing communications sense, in a PR sense, you want to look at local, regional, national and international. And what is the value of having your message seen in any one of those given segments? We are in Arizona, and we, I would say about 60% of our clients are as well. And they say to me, Well, we're in Arizona, so we don't want we don't need to worry about national coverage. And I so then I present Well, what about say, some of the magazine or the editorial greats like MJ venture mg magazine, or even mainstream that are covering Arizona cannabis. So really understanding the layers of geographic targeting and where, how the pitch might differ for each one of those. David in maybe this is not the right time to bring this up. But it's been really a relevant topic with a lot of our clients lately, especially in cannabis. Is it b2b, or is it b2c? So, with that said, what we tell our clients is yes, they're completely different. The buys are completely different. The structure the people you're dealing with are completely different, but the facts of the company remain the same. The values, the brand proposition, the products, so what we try to do as a PR firm, or encourage our clients to do is to really just get back to the basics on what you have in your catalog of products and your brands, and making sure that that messaging is the sinks. And that you know, and your customers know what? Potential customers?

Adriana Hemans 

Yeah, even with b2b companies. So my specialty is b2b marketing. But there's always an underlying current if we're doing a good job as business people bringing products to market or making cannabis safer, or what have you, then the ultimate who benefits ultimately is the consumer. So it's all just one big ecosystem?

Kim Prince 

A little bit of yes, that's exactly. Adriana. That's, that's absolutely it. So really understanding that and, you know, in trying to integrate that into your communications plan, or

Adriana Hemans 

talk about you mentioned a second ago, building brand awareness in specifically your clients who are in Arizona, but they're also thinking about a national plan. Yes. How, what initiatives do you use when you when you go to try to build a brand at a national level? Is there a difference? Is there a difference between strategies you would use to build brand awareness versus something you would do for if you're lobbying for cars, for example?

Kim Prince 

You know, the good thing about PR, and the bad thing about PR is it's really all custom. So we, I would suggest to anyone looking to align with a firm or an individual, really understanding what the goals are, and then creating a specific strategy from their specific plan to target. If it is a cause. Some sort of, you know, environmental cause or social cause, I would certainly create a plan that was much different than, say, a brand trying to reach a 25 to 34 year old male with that's looking for heavy THC content. So there are strategies for both of them. And again, that is the good part. And the bad part of PR is it can be very custom. So that's why, again, I maybe this is too rudimentary for this audience. But I really go back, and we have this plan, discussion with the client this morning, going back to the basics, making sure that you've got the messaging in place and who you want to reach and then targeting from there.

David Paleschuck 

We're all about having fun, first and foremost and educating, and normalizing cannabis. We have our audience participation. And here it is, your CannaQuiz for today. Our first question for the for the audience is: “What percentage of consumers will either boycott or buy from a brand based solely on their on their stance on political or social issues?” Is it: A. 23% B. 35% C. 53% or D. 64%?

I'm just going to call out because this, in some ways relates back to the slide that we got a lot of feedback on a couple of weeks ago when we had a conversation about community. And we talked about brands. And we talked about the evolution of brands over the decades, you know, again, in the 50s, and 60s, it was really about mass production and efficiency. So think miles per gallon. In the 70s, and 80s, it was more about how products made us felt so things miles per hour, maybe even how the wind was blowing through our areas, we were driving the convertible rather than the efficiency. And then and then kind of morphed into what we wore, and that either made us part of a tribe or not part of the tribe. And then really, as we got into the turn, turn into the 2000s, it was really about what are these brands stand for? And do we agree with them? And are we willing to put our money, you know, with these brands, so. So now we're talking about today, PR, and crisis management and when that sort of you hit the fork in the road, or when the seesaw, gets a little weighted and something goes the wrong way. So we're curious what percentage and we're asking everybody, all the audience members chime in. What percentage of consumers will either boycott or buy from a brand based solely on their stance on political or social issues?

David Paleschuck 

Kim, what's your thought on this?

Kim Prince 

Not to overcomplicate a simple question. But I think what people actually do and what they report they do are two different things in this survey, let me just say that. Yesterday, it was like 53% or 64%. But now I'm like probably be that's I'm going to go with B.

David Paleschuck 

Let's see. Let's reveal the answer, shall we? And the answer is …

Adriana Hemans 

D. 64%!

Kim Prince 

I like your reply there. But let me say this is that when you make those decisions, in terms of buying or not buying from an organization? I think that's I mean, obviously, it's, it's everyone's right to do so. But what I propose is that you're making those decisions for people who happen to be in the news about their behavior, versus a lot of companies that we buy from or doing things, maybe that would go against what we align with behind the scenes, but it hasn't been conveyed to the public or made an issue with them. Why I tend to be of the school that companies have a lot of good and a lot of bad. And it's really what the public perceives is has a lot to do with what that company has conveyed to the public or as we as I started with letting the public control the image versus your company controlling the image. So that's, that's when PR can get really complex and fun. And it takes a great team to really come up with a wonderful strategy. Because as you know, you can be, quote, crucified in the very quickly in the public eye. We also know that the public forgives fairly quickly, as well.

Adriana Hemans 

How do you go about measuring benchmarks? How do you know if what you're doing is going to accomplish move the PR needle?

Kim Prince 

That's such a good question. There's a bunch of different benchmarks. I worked for a guy in corporate and I loved him, he was the president of a company. But he always challenged us no matter what he did, he challenged us to take to the next level. And he taught me a lesson that I thought was very relevant that I think we're not seeing as much today. He said, when I was in corporate and he said, why not take that money and put it up front and do your research in advance, understand your goals, your target your media, take the time in advance to make the right decision. So you're not spending a ton of money afterwards to prove that you made the right decision. So I still insist that not everything PR can does can be measured immediately.

In terms of a customer survey, or some sort of tangible data. When an athlete says he's won the World Series, for instance, I want to go to Disneyland. How does Disneyland measure that? When I drive by, and we I was laughing? Because again, maybe you could do serious about this stuff. But someone suggested, let's put the QR code on the Billboard down the super big freeway here. My point is, how are you planning on measuring billboards? And then why are you going to put a QR code on a billboard?

Kim Prince

My point is this is that not everything in PR can be measured. And it's very, very challenging, especially as a PR person related you Andrea or Adriana had brought up a company that does some measurement, but we use a program called coverage book. And it shows the viewership the unique views that the audience etc. We use, you know, every program that we use has data that's provided with it. But I would encourage people not to just make decisions on one little simple set of data, you have to get that feeling and an understanding is what we're doing right or wrong. And do the homework upfront to make sure the media you're selecting the people you're working with the messaging, make sure that that's right up front, then you don't have to spend a huge amount of money showing that what we did was right, if that makes sense.

David Paleschuck 

It does. And just you know, to make a quick comment that I've spent a really long time looking at American Express, MasterCard, and Microsoft and a couple of others. And I think where things get really confusing is, in terms of measuring is once you get into the marketing mix, so you know, if you walk into a dark room and light a candle, yes, you know the difference between the dark and the first candle coming second candle or the third candle or the fourth candle. Not only is it in some ways a law of diminishing returns, but you don't at that point you don't know in that mix of candles or in this case in the mix in the marketing mix, which is driving more so individually. You can measure things once you're up and running and you have this mix of things going it's really hard to figure out what's driving from day to day based on one hot topic.

Kim Prince 

That's why that mix is so important and really understanding your messaging, making sure you have a campaign theme for the year be campaign driven. Make sure that everything goes back to that campaign. I may see it on my smartphone that I might go to a trade show and see it, then I might be at the dispensary and see it. And the third time I see it, I'm like, Okay, I'm going to make a decision. Now I'm going to buy that product. How do I measure that the first effect? What was the first effect of seeing it on my phone? And then seeing it a trade show? Like how do you measure those pre effects, or you just measure when it's made at the point of sale? So it's, you know, it's It takes courage to use intuition. It takes courage to combine data with intuition. And that takes courage for a company to come together and do the homework to make sure that they're doing everything to make sure that don't go into a campaign and go, Oh, God, did we do the right thing? Go into a campaign going, we're doing the right thing. And we know this is going to work … and here's why.

The seven touches exactly how do you measure the first six, the find the seven is when they take action? So you want to make sure you're doing that mix? And not just judging finite data that your web has given you.

Adriana Hemans 

Can we go into a little bit about how cannabis PR is different from other verticals? Like how is it different from traditional CPG?

Kim Prince 

Yes. David alluded to it a little bit. It's very much state specific in many ways. So as compared to a mainstream brand, you would you want to be highly targeted in your geographic approach. Compliance is everything. I mean, let's just start there with cannabis. It's highly regulated, making sure that wherever you are, you're understanding the compliance guidelines that apply to you, that apply to the products that apply to the state, you're in that, again, it's a value system, that you're not offending people with it, you know, depends what your goals are. But it varies very much because of an understanding of, of how delicate it can be. And that I love cannabis, I work in cannabis, I believe in cannabis, all my people do. But I sometimes forget that the public can still be leery. So it's really making sure that you're respectful in your conversation that you're listening, that you are doing what you can to bring forth a positive image for the for the products,

David Paleschuck 

You know, and this is perfect, because it actually leads us into to the next slide. And we could you could bring that up now, but you know, what is the image of the industry and what does it mean? And I want to just call out a great PR stunt if you will, that you know happened last year, the 850 pound brownie, which made it on to the Jimmy Kimmel show the Jimmy Fallon show the Stephen Colbert show and, and Saturday Night Live and what I thought was so brilliant about that and kudos to Lisa lessor who was behind it you know, it made this splash it got the attraction. When I thought was interesting was Mary Med, her client really got no play at all. Nobody knew where this was available. And further it was, you know, a national brownie date awesome because there was there was a strategy behind timing and urgency sense of urgency like the press hadn't put it out for a national brand new day, you know, when Why would you do this any other day? But again, it landed on all the shows as the 850 pound pot brownie. So you know, cute Yes. Funny. Yes. tongue in cheek, yes. Stereotypical. Yes. You know, and I think so. So we bring this up in the slide here, you know, for national brownie day with the 150 pound brownie. And then also something which is really interesting to which has just recently come up which is house plant, a cannabis brand and one by Seth Rogen and Airbnb, offering up a place that house you know, “where you could come and hang out”.

Adriana Hemans 

Yeah, you can hang out Seth Rogen and do pottery together. That was part of the experience on sale on Airbnb for $42.00 (Seems odd that it was US$42.00 and not US$420.00).

David Paleschuck 

Obviously, this is really interesting in the sense that it's a PR stunt but he's leveraging his brand. He's leveraging his celebrity. Airbnb is leveraging the cannabis culture. This is a really interesting, unique way of getting both brands out there and being cannabis friendly.

Adriana Hemans 

If you're looking at the listing on Airbnb, you're seeing images of this house, this creative retreat, and the way it's decorated, says something about the brand, right? Even like their pet, it has a record player that it has this kind of furniture. So it's like the brand house plant becomes embodied by the architecture and the decoration, and then you feel like a real sense of who this brand is and what it stands for. So it's a really unique campaign. And I think it is amazing. Like I would love to see more people sort of copy that.

David Paleschuck 

It’s special because you have an environment, you have a celebrity, it's super experiential. They're in houseplant and Seth Rogen and Airbnb are in a unique situation to really come up with something like this. It's pretty cool.

Kim Prince 

Honestly, I hadn't seen it yet. But I love what you're telling me about Seth Rogen and Houseplant. And let me say that's the perfect embodiment of “PESO” (paid, earned, shared and owned), they're going for it. They're going to do ads are going to do PR, they're going to do social, they're going to do it all. It's brilliant. And they've got a nice budget and they're doing it right. Brilliant. And like you said, Adriana, the brand is right on point. Everything about it is like fun. And brilliant. Love it.

David Paleschuck 

Well done Houseplant and Airbnb.

Adriana Hemans 

Well done. Very well done.

David Paleschuck 

We're waiting for you to come on our show as well, Seth Rogan and Houseplant!

Kim Prince 

That's a brilliant campaign. Yes, Lisa. Now, how do they take? How does measurement take that to the next level? Are they sharing it? Are they showing it off? Are they when they go to trade shows? Are they having some embodiment of that? So that's really the key to having a really robust result of a campaign or having a great campaign and then having it kind of fizzle out because perhaps the client didn't see the value of didn't have the money or that type of thing to keep that going. So that's again, the really great contrast between that and the Seth Rogen where and let's face it, it comes down to money, a lot of times it doesn't come down to, did the PR gal do the right thing she did the right thing? With Airbnb and Seth Rogen, we know their budgets are very robust. So the able to create that, that campaign with a lot of depth and breadth in it. So both great examples, again, hats off to Lisa for coming up with that brownie campaign.

David Paleschuck 

And not only is it cool, because it got the traction it did. But also because it was tied to National Brownie Day, so there was a sense of urgency. It wasn't just an idea; it was an idea related to the retail calendar. Recreating programs that are not only related to the topic, or celebrity or whatever else, but in this case, a holiday where, you know, the journalists and the publications and the outlets really needed to jump on it if they were going to do it. And that's what was really smart about it. You know, we haven't yet talked about crisis management. So I'm going to give a list just quickly, and unfortunately, there's been a racism cannabis space recently. So bear with me, as I just read through this to set up the next couple of questions. So just to mention a few. We've had the big crisis currently for announces closure of operations in California, Colorado and Oregon. Canopy Growth exits cannabis cultivation on three continents, in international pullback, Florida based MSO, Trulieve, CEO, Kim rivers, husband bait, on trial for bribery, death of an employee a truly for occupational asthma in Massachusetts, money laundering in Washington, DC, by a cannabis delivery company named joint ventures. So without going into the specifics here, you know, what are the things or a few of them that cannabis companies can do in advance to, you know, to prevent God the list of things that I you know, when all the ramifications that come of that, are there any things that a PR firm can not only help to prevent these things, but maybe even during and after?

Kim Prince 

Gosh, I was listening that list and it's really, you know, powerful that list, it's kind of overwhelming. With that said, we highly suggest that companies prepare for crisis in their business, it could be in a cultivation, it could be in a retail, it could be, like you said, with investors, or those types of things. So we consider crisis PR as a function of an overall PR. And generally what we do is get together with the client, identify situations that may become vulnerable, creating a tree of who would be involved, should any situation, you know, come up, creating a list of media partners who you trust, to put out the message. I will say also, what's very challenging, as well. And I feel like it's overlooked in a lot of crisis communications discussions, but especially now understanding that you have an internal audience and an external audience. So making sure that your crisis communications includes your own team. So they're aware of what's going on, perhaps simultaneously with the press or before the press if it's acceptable. So crisis communications, encompasses internal external stakeholders. And then it's that yeah, it can be challenging, and frankly, maybe people who want to see us fail. So you got to be really, it's really delicate, bringing your team together, making sure that you know what the phone tree is, if something happens, and making sure that you're well prepared to handle a crisis.

Adriana Hemans 

As we're on the topic of crisis management, let's talk about what is arguably the biggest crisis that we remember in the cannabis industry. And of course, I'm talking about the vape crisis that happened in 2019. It was very had a lot of attention in the media, a lot of people were talking about it. So this stat that we're about to share in a second relates to what how did it impact economic conditions like what happened in the cannabis market overall? So the question is, the vape crisis of 2019 negatively impacted vape sales? What was the impact on cannabis sales overall across all form factors? So the question here is like looking taking a holistic view of what was selling, and I should mention also like what was selling in in the legal market because that's where we have tracked some metrics tracked this data is from headset. What was the impact on cannabis sales overall across all form factors? A sales declined B sales increased C, there was no impact on sales or D prices were adjusted. Let me know what you think. Drop your best guess in the chat. Yeah.

Kim Prince 

Multiple choice and I still don't like it.

Adriana Hemans 

Marco is also going with B. And Mark was not hedging his bets this time. He's sticking with one answer. Cheryl is going with a Stephen and Trista are both going with a is a popular choice. Yeah.

David Paleschuck 

And this is again across all form factors.

Adriana Hemans 

Headset such as social mentioned which measures point of sale data.

Kim Prince 

We love Headset’s data. Love it.

Adriana Hemans 

I think we have a consensus in the chat. A mostly A's with a couple of votes for B. And the answer is C, there was no impact.

So we looked at different form factors, right? During this time period vape, sales went down. But other form factors actually increased and made up the shortfall, which I think speaks to what how different loyalty is in cannabis versus in other verticals, right? If you go to a store and you're going to buy Kleenex, for example, they don't have Kleenex brand. So you just buy some other tissue? Do you know what I mean? If you're in cannabis, you're going to switch to a whole other form factor because you are looking for that same experience. You may be switching out your vape pen for something different.

David Paleschuck 

Yeah, very interesting.

Adriana Hemans 

Very good stuff. Great, great survey there.

David Paleschuck 

Last question here. Kim, would you we often ask our guests, would you recommend a movie or a book or an experience that some of our listeners and folks in in the cannabis industry, you know, would appreciate or might learn from?

Kim Prince 

I hate to be so corny here, but your book, “Branding Bud: The Commercialization of Cannabis”. I love that you did this book. And I think as marketers, we should all read it as PR people we should all read it. I was going to say in terms of experience. I want to just say work experience, like getting as much experience as one can in the industry is what will help them and I see a well, let me just say this as any corporate experience, you can bring over any, whether it's it, whether it's corporate, whether it's cultivation, whether it's retail, just bringing something to the industry. So in terms of experience, I would just say get out there and live life and work hard and bring it all back to the industry, it's so it can be its best self, we've got a long ways to go, we've still got a lot to overcome in terms of public perceptions. We're, we're going through a challenging year, I like to say the best will survive. So, you know, buckle up and get ready for a ride, but it's a great ride. And, you know, just conveying that to the public that you're excited to be in it and you value their business, and you have your sh*t together about what you what you're what you stand for. So that's what I would say in terms of experience.

Adriana Hemans 

Thank you so much, Kim. That was really awesome.

Kim Prince 

Thanks for having me.

David Paleschuck 

Thank you, Kim. We appreciate that. Wow. And we've come to another end of our episode. So before we leave, we're super excited about next week. On February 16th we'll be back next week with Danny Gold, the CEO of ZolTrain, an online cannabis educational platform. And our topic will be,  “Cannabis: Who's Teaching Who?” We’ll be talking about the “education continuum” from the brands to the retailer to the budtender to the consumer. Please join us next Thursday, February 16th at 11am PST / 2p EST.

Adriana Hemans 

There's a link in the chat. So please go onto our event page and register for next week's episode. And please follow our page so you don't miss any updates. And if you miss us between now and next Thursday, you can head over to YouTube and check out our channel and see our past videos.

David Paleschuck 

Thanks for joining us, everybody. Please don’t forget to check out “cannabis’s best-kept secret” at www.brandingbud.com. See you next week. Bye bye!

Adriana Hemans 

Bye bye!

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