Cannabis & Veterans: Healing Heroes - Branding Bud Live Episode 36
THE SUMMARY
What’s driving veterans to select cannabis over other forms of treatment? Join Branding Bud Live co-hosts, David Paleschuck and Adriana Hemans, and their guest, Bob Patton, General George Patton’s grandson and Co-founder of Green Meadows, a vertically integrated Massachusetts cannabis brand as we discuss "Cannabis and Veterans: Healing Heroes".
THE CO-HOSTS
David Paleschuck, Adriana Hemans
THE SPECIAL GUEST
Amy Deneson, Co-Founder, Cannabis Media Council
THE TRANSCRIPT
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Welcome to Branding Bud Live, the live stream that’s 100% THC and 0% WTF. Every week we speak with business people about the business of cannabis. I’m David Paleschuck, founder of Branding Bud Consulting Group and author of the first book on cannabis branding. I’m joined by my co-host Adriana Hemans, a Marketing executive with over 8 years in the cannabis space. Hi Adriana!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Hi David. Thank you for that intro. I’m so excited to co-host the show with you. We’re bringing amazing guests from across the cannabis ecosystem to share their perspectives. My favorite thing about Branding Bud Live is that we focus on building community - and we encourage audience participation. It’s not just about us talking, it’s about all of us building something together. So feel free to drop your questions and/or opinions in the chat, and we’ll share them too.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
We’re here to build community, educate and entertain … so let’s jump into today’s show, "Cannabis and Veterans: Healing Heroes". Today, we’ll be chatting with Bob Patton, General George Patton’s grandson and Co-founder of Green Meadows, a vertically integrated Massachusetts cannabis brand to discuss What’s driving veterans to select cannabis over other forms of treatment. Some of the topics we’ll cover are:
Are more veterans turning to cannabis as a means of healing?
Are there any cannabis brands that focus on veterans?
What cannabis-specific resources are available to veterans?
I’m super excited to chat with Bob today.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Me too!
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Let’s welcome, Bob Patton.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Tell us about yourself, Michael. What are you passionate about?
BOB PATTON
Well, you know, I got into good passion in the cannabis after being passionate about a lot of things early on, and probably made every mistake in the book in in both large and small ways. But basically, after being a writer for a number of years, and I always say I sold just enough books, to where my agent would return my calls. And but in like in 2017 My father who had retired as a major general he was the son of the very famous world war two general my relation to them. It's an accident of birth but very proud to be related to George Patton's but my father in 1980, after retiring, went to his home lands that his father had bought in the 20s and created an organic, sustainable agriculture farm, green meadows and he ran that until he died of Parkinson's in 2004. And then my mother took it over and then in 2017, we as a family decided to move into cannabis and medical was our initial purpose and Focus and mission. We've added adult use which in Massachusetts is what we call recreational cannabis. Massachusetts is where we are operating right now, we are licensed in Connecticut and looking to move out outward from the border. But we've been in operation now, opening our doors, as a dispensary first and 2020. And vertically integrated growing organically. We also manufacture vapes and a few other products under our green meadows brand. And we wholesale around the state, we have a great team, I have four sons, and three of them are in the company. And we all still speak to each other after all the highs and lows that cannabis will take you through. And again, so we do have a story to tell, but always a lot to learn. And so one of the reasons I love being with folks like you is I learned as much as I as I offer.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Tell us how the Patton family got into the cannabis business.
BOB PATTON
My father had run and then my mother after him in organic produce farm traditional farm though the farm stand on a country road. And he was the real deal. He took off his military uniform. And on came you know, the Carhartt jeans and the John Deere hat he was and you know, farming became something he really was devoted to, and particularly sustainable farming because he was this, you know, this old soldier? more conservative than not and why would he become so devoted to sustainable agriculture? Well, for whatever reason he did and when we decided to take it into cannabis, my initial thought, as we sat around as a family to say, what do we continue the Agriculture Farm? Do we do something else? My thought and said, you know, we'll just maybe lease the lands or whatever. But my younger brother and younger sister who work in cannabis, a part of me in veteran foundation said what about medical cannabis, and its applications, which are still being explored in PTSD remedy. And my first thought was, well, I'm all for legalization and all for medical cannabis. I'm not sure the patent family with whatever presuppositions might go and what we're all about. I'm from a long history of military men and women. But I said, maybe, and my elderly mother, God bless her was at the kitchen table as we were having this conversation. And she said over my dead body, but lo and behold, she's still with us at 91 and is our biggest fan. And it's absolutely tracks the developments in cannabis research, medical cannabis, its applications for seniors, for veterans. And so after going through what might be the I can call the initial resistance both within ourselves and within the community that have presumptions about what the patent family should or should not be about. We've come a long way. And we couldn't be prouder of our team and our products, what we do for veterans, whether just hiring, job training, and of course making you know, great medical cannabis products available to them at whatever discounts we can do within the medical, you know, ruling. So again, I couldn't be prouder. If you'd asked me six years ago, would I be here in this business with my sons, I would never have imagined it. But it has been for all of the grading of my hair that it has done. It's been a major conquest of just moving forward learning, and getting the beat folks like you and all of our team and all of our patients and customers that come in and all the folks that are listening now hello out there.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Green Meadows focuses a lot of their philanthropic efforts on programs that benefit veterans and specifically communicates the potential benefits of cannabis for PTSD. Can you tell us how you and your family uncovered that link between cannabis and PTSD?
BOB PATTON
Well, again, it comes it begins in the in the symptoms themselves right when my brother has done a lot of work with Ponton veterans project in this what there can be obviously among veterans, particularly combat veterans, there can be physical pain, but they're within pts. We don't even like I don't really like to use the disorder. I just it's post-traumatic stress that it comes from many sources and within the military and military experience. It comes from that and we know that it's the primary symptoms are anxiety, trouble and sleeping, insomnia and other words and long term pain and a lot other tools that are available, the veterans administration makes its opioids available and anti inflammatories and all the things that pass over the counter, you know, prescriptive. I've come to really believe and we in our team and our family and I know you all share this view that other tools can go in that toolbox and cannabis medical cannabis may or may not be a panacea. But it should absolutely be part of the possibilities that we can offer veterans who are struggling to find ways to address whatever may be ailing them, without becoming debilitated by dependencies on opioids and the horrors that we know go with that. So I always think that in life, pardon this huge generalization, we need fellowship, and we need purpose. And PTSD can inter Can, can contradict those and be an impediment when you have issues of social isolation and pain and lack of sleep and anxiety, to get those elements of fellowship, with our partners, with our families, with our workmates, with our neighbors, and then purpose. And this enables, I think, talking about people on our team, and so many people that I meet in public forums, cannabis for them, not for all but for them enables that ability to engage in fellowship and purpose. Again, those things are not being deflected by the issues that sometimes Post Traumatic Stress can evoke. So that's really where cannabis has as impressed itself to me. And again, this is from talking to real, truly great people on our staff and great people I know that have really worn the uniform done great things for our country, but have suffered from after effects. And they have found that cannabis has enabled them to become clear in what they need to establish fellowship, and to establish purpose, and it just can clear the decks for people then to get on with living a good life and making great contributions.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Are veterans and seniors the primary consumer target for Green Meadows?
BOB PATTON
I often conflate the veterans and seniors just because often the groups I speak to are Vietnam era veterans who let's say are 70 ish and up. And so many of them like me refer back to the days of marijuana when it was seeds and stems in a baggie behind the barn and this was what you had and suddenly to be in a group and they're saying, Oh, you mean you can do you don't have to smoke and I say no, there are patches there are tinctures there are edibles. There are vapes. There are so many different ways there are beverages where you can bring it in, it's tested, it's got sell by dates, you can understand what's in it, you have really concrete expectations of how it will come onto your body and how it will leave and what kinds of affects you can look for rather than just sort of potluck, no pun intended, excuse me about just opening a random baggie and seeing what it does to you. So this is something that is a revelation to so many people have particularly of more of my vintage But even among younger vets they are amazed at the breadth of applications that one can have with cannabis. And then again it can be calibrated you can be a micro dose person which is sort of where I fall you know, or you can be someone that needs a little bit more maybe for long term pain but the legalization has really opened up the sense of security that one can have by looking at cannabis products now in the legal market.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Let’s talk about cause-based marketing. In your opinion, what impact does veteran-focused messaging have on the overall growth of the company? Do you ever worry about being pigeon-holed as a “veteran” brand?
BOB PATTON
Well, some of its just direct in the sense that when you come into a community, it always starts local, we want we support our local Veterans Council that's in our two cities where we are currently operating right now in Massachusetts. But beyond that, we have within the green meadows line of organic products we have I don't like to call it a sub brand, because that sounds sort of sub quality, but we call it General's aid. And that was a more medically oriented more a wellness oriented products. And we devote 2% of the revenues from that directly to veteran organizations, we particularly support two in Massachusetts, one is stopped soldier suicide based in Worcester, and the other is a black veterans project. And this is just an obligation that we feel we have to do. Often people speak to me, Oh, Bob Patton, you have the last name, you must have been a soldier and an officer or whatever it might be. And I say, No, I have not worn the uniform, it's in our DNA. But I will always want to know, what can we do for the veteran community. And as I just mentioned, the seniors, and then going outward to that to all to all age groups, you know, 21, and up, of course, but we really try to be direct supporters in a philanthropic way. But then also hiring, job training. And sharing this is something we were helped as a company, larger companies, people much more established in the industry helped us out helped us answer some questions literally, about how to set up the business, what kinds of, you know, vendors, you might you look for, what sort of marketing campaigns, your expertise we might look for, and that paying forward is something we've tried to do as well. I mean, we're, we're just out of the crib ourselves as a company, you know, staggering along as a little toddler, but we try to help other new companies that come along. It is competitive, we do want to succeed, but people were kind to us in the industry. And I've tried to keep that effort going with us.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Every week we have two audience participation quizzes and this week is no exception. Who’s ready for our first one?
DAVID PALESCHUCK
That stat is very surprising. I didn’t realize PTS was so prevalent in the US. When you talk to veterans, what are you hearing from individuals about their perceptions of cannabis? Are you seeing resistance among this group, perhaps driven by a historical stigma?
BOB PATTON
But you know, it's what we're seeing more and more now. And I follow the stats, not as carefully as you I'm sure but I do find and I do read and I do hear from our clients and patients and customers that come through, that they really don't differentiate much from the medical, wellness, and recreational it really is all melding together in a way and I think that's extremely healthy. Because it really is, I mean, one's lifestyle on the weekend with family or with your partner or watching a movie or whether a concert or whether they're just enjoying nature outside or whether you're in bed trying to you know, deal with some phantom pain from a combat amputation. There's some kind of a continuum between the two and people are working that out. And wellness seems to be the kind of catch all phrase personal wellness, lifestyle, wellness, medical, recreational, it's a continuum and this is the really interesting thing about cannabis that there can be a real split between the two. Of course, there are going to be specifics I did notice a couple of questions about pediatric cannabis use and that's something we have had in our facility. They come in with an adult caregiver 21 and up with and then an under Each person can come in with them and be received and treated and have a private discussion with some of our staff. That's becoming much more I think, mainstream. I believe I don't want to get it wrong. But I think that a year or two ago, the government did okay. Cannabinoids for treatment of pediatric childhood epilepsy and that's in the FDA playbook now. So there you go. This is this is maybe the first area where we'll get some legitimacy among the on that front and carry it forward from there. So pediatric cannabis use. It sounds like Oh, my God, children using cannabis. No, it's medicine. And it's regulated, and it will be targeted in a proper way. And again, that's the tip of the iceberg.
ADRIANA HEMANS
What product type are veterans and seniors gravitating toward? What’s a common entry point for these groups?
BOB PATTON
I think, again, it's partly generational, I think, in the more recent vintage of veterans, let's say, you know, Iraq, war, Afghanistan, and that era, not all served in the war, not all served in combat. But in that era, they're going to be much more familiar with the new developments in cannabis and the new possibilities and discussions, as I mentioned earlier, where you really see true interest. And I say this in a positive way, ignorance of where cannabis is today. And the studies and the availability among the more senior veterans and their and their spouses and families, whatever it might be. But when I'm in that group, they really just need to know the fundamentals. They're curious about, what are the application and methods now what might I expect what you mean, it's tested, oh, it's tested, I can actually look at the label as if it was from my Walgreens or CVS. And this is an amazement to them. And you and I might have become completely familiar with it. I'm sure many of our viewers same way. But there are many who don't, and many, many who don't. And so to begin that fundamentally, and say, this is out there, it's being tested. Now it's available legally, we are finding, by the way, that when you have legal cannabis in a medical or adult use space in a neighborhood, you will see a natural migration from illegal black market cannabis to legal because people, most people don't want to look over their shoulder as much as they may like their friendly old dealer, they would rather deal in the legitimate legal market for the advantages of testing and even if it comes at a higher price due to taxation. So when we see this happen on a social side, and then you see the positives on the medical side, and the wellness side, it is again, these are these are the kinds of trends that that excite me and really, that people should be looking for. Never let us forget that it's 21 and up children, you know, these are all really important responsibilities at a company such as ours, anyone has to be in the forefront of maintaining the proper regulatory barriers and, and stopping points to make sure that we keep it out of the wrong hands and make sure it's available to those who are qualified to have it. So that said, It's time now. And again, I'm sure I'm speaking to people who believe exactly as I do, it's time now to make this available, and to interact in a responsible way. Whether you're looking for a good time on the weekend, or whether you're just to relax and to do the things that cannabis can do for all of us, and we enjoy it. Or oh, by the way, it may actually help with a problem you may have. And veterans have led the way coming to us and saying this has really helped me because it's enabled the word I always got from on our team, I talked to them. We were almost 50% of our of our company, our vets, and they're great. I mean, they're collaborative, they're accountable, wonderful people, and we owe them everything, of course. But when I talk to them, the word that comes up is clarity. It enabled them to clear their minds just a little bit from whatever was besetting them. Anxiety, lack of sleep, issues of connecting with loved ones, whatever it might be. They said it gave them a moment to just clear the air. And that might seem counter to an intoxicant, or whatever we want to call the psychoactive effects of cannabis. But if you're dealing with something much is more fundamental and kind of distracting in in those kinds of ailments. If cannabis takes those down a notch and lets you see a bit clearly and feel a bit clearly, then then God bless it.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Strong recommendation against cannabis and cannabis derivatives for the treatment of PTSD in the latest VA/DoD clinical practice guidelines, while no recommendations for or against multiple psychedelics are formulated. There’s a "weak" recommendation against ketamine, however. What’s your take on this?
BOB PATTON
I think that's a really great question. Because I've been kind of dismayed and amazed how the psychedelics that the mushrooms, the psilocybin have been, really from conservative, I would have said conservative communities and conservative forms, including our government sort of saying, yes, let's do this. And I'm all for it, of course. Because again, it's a tool in the toolbox. Let's add it to the other therapies that are available. But why is cannabis sort of kept in sort of a sequestered area? Perhaps because people think it's maybe it'd be more available to the youth or whatever it may be? I can't really answer that. But I think that there ought to be that strong distinction. Psilocybin the psychedelics and psychiatric care? Absolutely. From all I read, it's just an amazing new window, amazing new therapy, an amazing way for, I guess, people to sort of access things that are going on within them, that the, you know, hallucinogenic have somehow, you know, uncorked in a positive way, cannabis can do the same. It's they're not the same, they shouldn't be treated as the same. But I am a bit amazed that, that cannabis still has the, the, what we see as a social resistance still in some quarters, and yet psilocybin is quite embraced, and I'm all for it. But I think cannabis should not be left behind. Oh, someone mentioned to me, I mean, whenever these days particularly after the all the COVID vaccinations and boosters and all that we've gotten all the mysteries and you know, the Sturm and Drang, that goes with that. Pharmaceutical companies are not uninvolved in this and when cannabis comes forward and appears to be a remedy, a possible remedy, there may be quarters that don't necessarily want that to happen quite as easily as other things. So that's, that's purely me, you know, shooting from the hip here. But I have to believe there are there are resistors out there with a lot of power that want this slow walk forward for whatever reason. And again, I'm all for regulation. I'm all for responsibility and not just diving in headfirst. But this is out there people are accessing it. Let's, let's promote it in a positive way. And in a deliberate way that's not irresponsible, and not reckless.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Every week we have two audience participation quizzes and this week is no exception. Who’s ready for our second one?
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Audience: It’s your turn to shine!
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Let’s take a second to talk about the Massachusetts market. Is the entrance of other states in the northeast like New York and New Jersey a concern for you?
BOB PATTON
Oh, it definitely does. I mean, initially, and the stores that even opened in Massachusetts, before we did, it became Massachusetts adult use, opened up for the first time and just after Thanksgiving of 2018. And we didn't open till 2020. Initially, it was the tri state area which is New York, Connecticut, New Jersey. They were just lines around the block as those you know, Connecticut is legal. Now New Jersey, New York is also getting there. They're all having their early rollout difficulties, but they're all legal. Now. Rhode Island is right on the heels. So it definitely we feel it. And Massachusetts feels it there is Massachusetts is still growing in its overall revenue, but competition is very fierce. Now among both cultivators and dispensaries. It's actually the market is undergoing some difficult periods now for business owners because it's a classic shake out. But the other states coming on are definitely affecting it. And in all candor, I mean a support national legalization and all but I do think for a smaller company like ours, which is trying to grow and produce organically which is a higher degree of difficulty. It's the fact that it's not legal nationally yet has enabled us in this smaller pond to establish ourselves how we work and how we can produce organic products with sustainable you know methodologies in a way that's competitive and keep our costs down so we can in fact compete with someone who's doing it in a more mass produced upscale way. So I'm glad for the fact that it's just state by state right now although ultimately when nationalization does occur and it will occur, they will bring a lot of new a new openings in research and in and obviously in pricing for the consumer it'll go down for sure.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Thank you, Bob. We appreciate you so much for what you do, not only on a daily basis, but also because you bring your family lineage. And as the grandson of General George Patton, we need more people like you and we need more families like yours to step up to defend the plant. We truly appreciate what you do.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Thank you, Bob.
BOB PATTON
Thank you for having me. And best of luck to all of you take care. And to everyone out there.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
That’s our show for today. We’ll be back again next Thursday, July 27th at 11am PST / 2pm EST when we’ll be chatting about "Cannabis Education & Professional Training" with Kurt Kaufmann, Co-founder of Seed Talent.
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ADRIANA HEMANS
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DAVID PALESCHUCK
And don’t forget to check out cannabis’s best-kept secret at www.brandingbud.com
Thank you everybody!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Thanks for joining everyone. Please follow us!
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Thank you everybody. We'll see you next week. And don't forget to check out cannabis is best kept secret at www.brandingbud.com. Until then!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Bye
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