Outlaw Brands: Backstories & Bad Guys - Branding Bud Live Episode 17
THE SUMMARY
The story of the “Gentlemen Smugglers” is truly one for the history books. A small group of friends from South Carolina launched a global cannabis smuggling ring. Then in 1971, President Reagan and the War on Drugs came calling and ensnared this small, close-knit group of friends in “Operation Jackpot”, the first Presidential sting. Barry "Flash" Foy was tagged with the federal kingpin statute – Code §848 Continuing Criminal Enterprise – and spent 11 years in prison
THE CO-HOSTS
David Paleschuck, Adriana Hemans
THE SPECIAL GUEST
Barry Foy, Kingpin, Gentlemen Smugglers
THE TRANSCRIPT
David Paleschuck
Welcome to Branding Bud Live, the live stream that’s 100% THC and 0% WTF. Every week we speak with business people about the business of cannabis. I’m David Paleschuck, founder of Branding Bud Consulting Group and author of the first book on cannabis branding. I’m joined by my co-host Adriana Hemans, a Marketing executive with over 8 years in the cannabis space. Hi Adriana!
Adriana Hemans
Hi David. Thank you for that intro. I’m so excited to co-host the show with you. We’re bringing amazing guests from across the cannabis ecosystem to share their perspectives. What makes our show unique is that we focus on building a community - and we encourage audience participation. It’s not just about us talking, it’s about all of us building something together. So feel free to drop your questions and/or opinions in the chat, and we’ll share them too.
David Paleschuck
Thank you, Adriana. And thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We have a lot of hot topics to get into today. Today, we’ll be talking about “Outlaw Brands: Backstories & Bad Guys”. Specifically, we’ll be discussing:
What exactly is an outlaw brand and why do they appeal to consumers?
Is there more than one type of outlaw brand?
What it’s like to spend 11 years in jail only to end up owning a legal cannabis brand?
Our guest today is Barry Foy, one of the “Gentleman Smugglers” - one of a small group of friends from South Carolina who launched a global cannabis smuggling ring in the 1970’s before getting caught up in “Operation Jackpot”, the first Presidential sting in the War on Drugs. Barry was tagged with the federal kingpin statute and spent 11 years in prison. Fifty years later, Barry and his friends return older and wiser. They’ve never lost their rogue spirit, belief in the plant, or sense of humor. I’m excited to chat with Barry today.
We also have audience participation activities as well. We’ll throw a stat up on the screen, so you can test your industry knowledge. We’ll be sharing a few stats with you today, we think you’ll find interesting, so please stick around for the entire show.
Before we welcome Barry, we want to show you a very cool quick reel that helps explain the Gentleman Smugglers brand. Take a look and then we’ll bring out Barry Foy - Kingpin of the Gentleman Smugglers. Enjoy it!
David Paleschuck
Wow! That was pretty amazing.
Adriana Hemans
You are absolutely right. Well, that said, let's bring out the “kingpin” himself, Barry Foy.
Barry Foy
Hello David & Adriana. How are you doing today?
Adriana Hemans
Doing great. Awesome to have you here. Yeah. I love the part in the video where you talked about you have to ride that pony. So tell us what do you what have you been up to what ponies? Are you riding these days?
Barry Foy
Well, we've been mostly riding recently up in Massachusetts. That's where the action is for us at the moment. You know, we launched a brand, a cannabis brand in Massachusetts in September of 22. And it's been quite an adventure there. We love Massachusetts. And we're, we're, we're doing well. We're maybe in 5060 dispensaries already. We're, I'll be going up next week to the NECANN event in Boston. I'm sure y'all familiar with that. And we'll be spreading the word and pushing the brand. And I've really got a lot of good feedback. I love the people in Massachusetts, they're very friendly. They love the brand. And they love the backstory. And so I'm right at home there.
David Paleschuck
That's perfect. You know, just you mentioned Massachusetts off the bat, and loving the backstory. Are there places you found that love the story more? I think everybody loves the story. It's hard not to be intrigued by the story, but do you find love a little more in certain places?
Barry Foy
You know, it seems to come out for me when I'm in the dispensaries if I want to kind of narrow this down. When the people come in, and I meet them face to face. I feel like they really kind of get the feeling of what's going on because we share stories. Everybody has a story in this space. That has been a cannabis user who has been a cannabis user as I have for years. They have the little stories of how they just got away or they almost got caught and have I tried this and thank you for what you've done over the years and the time you spent in prison for getting us the people to where we at today where we can actually go in and buy in a dispensary without looking over our shoulders that somebody's going to be, you know, putting handcuffs on us. And so, you know, we pushed that envelope back in the day when there were no legal states. And so specially sometimes I'd say the older generation who had been through the oppressive days and had felt that for years of buying cannabis, wherever they could find it and they have absorbed an appreciation for what people like myself have brought to the business today. And I feel that warmth, warmth, this that, that the camaraderie of telling each other stories when I run into people and dispensaries doing pop ups. So if I had to answer that it would be when I'm actually in, in the stores that people are coming in, to purchase. And so it's really, it's really a lot of fun to meet face to face with people today and share stories.
David Paleschuck
And that's what it's really all about. It's that connection. How did you end up with a group of friends in a smuggling ring? How does that even happen?
Barry Foy
It takes a minute, it's a process, I started out, you know, in a small way, in my hometown it back in the late 60s, early 70s. And started to go on these trips to Jamaica kind of own my own to do some research and then gathered my close friends around. And they were excited about what I had found when I was there in Jamaica. And we decided to give it a shot. And we actually had some mishaps early on. But we learned from those mishaps. And I got lucky living in Florida at the time, met somebody with a small sailboat and told them what I had found. And they were all on board, so to speak. And away we went. And it was kind of by accident in a lot of ways. Obviously, it's nothing that there was no book written on how to do these things. And so it was all improv as you went along. And, you know, it was at that age, I was in my very early 20s. And it was an adventure. And who doesn't like to go on an adventure on the high seas, you know, and there is a benefit at the end, maybe you make some money. And everybody gets to partake and enjoy the plant as the end result. And so that kind of drove that feeling. And then once we did a couple of smuggling runs, people were like, gosh, this is great. Can you get some more and there was almost like the word spread. And it was like, go, you know, it was like an encouragement. And so yeah, that's kind of how it got started. There was very little negative feelings involved. It was all positive, you know. And that kind of drove the adventure venture into bigger and bigger.
Adriana Hemans
It really is like you lived a movie Berry, which there's probably a villain to this story. So let's hear about it. What is operation jackpot? Tell us what happened there.
Barry Foy
Well, jackpot was a name that was given to the Feds getting in on trying to stop us from what we were doing. I think it was a local newspaper that that came up with the jackpot. And so it became operation jackpot, which is kind of a catchy name in itself. And we've always embraced it. I liked the name. I didn't like what happened obviously, at the end of that but love the name and so it's kind of been something that we've kept with us for years. And we were part of that jackpot. It was a loan investigation by the feds, FBI, DEA, US Customs Coast Guard, US Marshals I mean IRS, it went on and on and on. And they finally ran us down in our operation jackpot over the years. It took that many agencies we were fairly sophisticated. And it all kind of ended in I'd say 8590 95 It's one it was over, but it was kind of an unusual situation because was most of these agencies never worked together? And they came together on this particular situation with us. And when they eventually ran us down, I don't think anybody hardly gets away when the Feds start chasing you and, and trying to stop what was going on which as we all know, that was not possible. And here we are today in the legal world, it's quite 180 degree turn for sure. From operation jackpot, two gentlemen smugglers cannabis branded dice. So that's kind of the backstory on jackpot itself. It's still talked about here. And then I talked about it as well, whenever I go to the dispensaries in Massachusetts will soon be going to, hopefully Missouri, which is a new state that came on this year, we'll hopefully be in New Jersey and New York telling the story as well. Everywhere. So, you know, that's jackpot. And we love the love the name. I mean, dude, I'm a jackpot!
David Paleschuck
Let's link it back to brands. So just to level set on the “outlaw” brand archetype. They tap into our deep desire for nonconformity to the point of rebellion. The outlaw throws aside societal norms and seeks to destroy them only to build things up again, the way they should be. And I think that, like that's the key right there to why an outlaw can also be a hero. You know, there's something really intriguing that I think that appeals to most of us, you know, outlaws are disruptive. They're combative, there were dahlias. But, I think if we can't reach the inner, you know, outlet within us, we really like to see it in other people. You know, when I think that's why, Barry, your story, like completely resonates, especially in the cannabis space, right? Because even consuming cannabis for those people that have done it over the years. That I mean, certainly that's been a part of my rebellious side. You know, nobody has to really know about it. Or my other rebellious friends. In my case, skaters skateboarders, you know, but that's what I shared with them. That was my shared experience. And kind of this was part of that. So it's interesting to see this and it's interesting to see how everybody appeals to it so much. Adriana, you recently ran a poll on LinkedIn, even asking people about outlaws outlaw brands and what was their favorite one? Want to talk about that?
Adriana Hemans
Yeah, this is a this is an interesting one. So and I think this ties into what we're about to talk about there is not only just one type of outlaw brand, but there's actually a few. So I found some examples and made a poll and posted it to my network on LinkedIn who is there's a lot of cannabis people also people from you know, insights and other marketing folks, but majority cannabis folks, I would say, and I asked them what is your favorite outlaw brand and there were four choices virgin, Richard Branson's brand, Marlboro is the second option Harley Davidson or MTV and there was one clear favorite Can you guess which one it was?
David Paleschuck
You know, it also seems really generational to Adriana in a way like, you know, Marlboro Sure. You know, maybe in the 50s and 60s, people sort of, you know, saw it in a different way than they see it now, too.
Adriana Hemans
Yeah. Yeah, the people who guessed Harley, you're absolutely right out of our 50 votes. 42. Put Harley Davidson and the second one are up was virgin. And then MTV and Marlboro were tied for 16%, which I was kind of surprised. I thought Marlboro like not even get any votes at all. I guess people don't really like the direction that MTV went into. But that's a whole other topic.
David Paleschuck
That's, that's pretty funny. Um, so I'm curious, looking back on your history, and now seeing what's taking place with legalization, and with decriminalization … what are your thoughts on that?
Barry Foy
It's mixed, you know, it's, but it's also kind of satisfying that it's come. Like I said, full circle one ad to where it doesn't seem like what I did, and the guys I work with did and all the other people who smuggled cannabis back in the day, it seems that there's a positive outcome. That, you know, even though that was tough, a lot of people in prison, a lot of people did prison time. To, you know, to get us to where we at today. So, I think it's just, it's, I think it's great that we're finally, you know, breaking through and breaking out of this, this mold that the government put us in for so many years with disinformation, allies, jail, time intimidation, what have you, that we, the people have been able to overcome that. And we've been able to, you know, look into a more positive way of thinking about this. And it's been through people like y'all putting on the show, it's been through education, it's been through all the other folks out there that have driven this, this plan to get to a place that we feel comfortable with, and we can use it with freedom, we can use it without intimidation, we can use it without worrying about somebody knocking on our door, you know, hey, you know, when the door breaks open, and you go to jail, we're finally getting out of that, you know, but it's, it's tough to overcome the government. You know, they're very powerful. They're everywhere, they have a lot of money to run their story. On to us as the public. And so I think that I'm looking back now and that, it, we're in a good place, and it's only going to get better. And then thank you all for what you do to spread the word. That's what it's about education. Bringing the community gathered up to understand that this is a plant that has many great uses medicinally. Especially, and that we as a people should be free to exercise our right to use the plant.
Adriana Hemans
Absolutely. And thank you for what you do, Barry, I know that part of your story is you really were, you know, an early victim of the war on drugs and ad spent 11 years in jail, which is such an interesting and dramatic change that that took place over your life. And I'm curious to know, like, how did that inform your outlook? And how did that help to inform your approach to building a brand or running a business?
Barry Foy
Well, I think it's something that I never imagined, you know, 25 years ago, 30 years ago that I would be in this position as things started to develop in California, Colorado, and you guys on the West Coast, push the envelope, I was started to realize that maybe one day it'd be a possibility that I could get back into the business this time on the legal side. And so that's, you know, something that I I guess you know, I've been prepared to do this for so long. I don't know too many people that have been in the business. As long as I have, I'm counting about 50 years now. And so it's I'm just happy that we're where we are today. And we're starting to gain more freedom and using the plant, and it's where we're on the right path. And so I think it was it, I don't have any bad feelings about what happened in the past to me, you know, I just, I kind of accepted it and tried to make the best of it, and, and move forward on I know, when I was in prison, I finished college. And I tried to stay busy. And and so I don't really bitter about the past that the years I spent behind bars. And so I'm just glad that we're kind of at the place, where are today and then I can continue forward with what I kind of started in the 70s. And I feel I feel blessed to be able to do that.
David Paleschuck
Thank you for sharing that. I've certainly never been in a situation like that. But dare I even say, it's almost a bittersweet situation. You've paid your time. Or perhaps you're saying, Why are other people paying their time, yet? We're really in a much better situation for everybody. So you kind of hold your breath and say, Wait, we've just come lightyears ahead and leap years ahead. So you know, so, yeah, for everybody. Right. And, and I also know that you're, you've participated, you know, with the last prisoner project, and you do other things to, you know, to bring that home, you know, it's not like you ran from the prison, you know, and never looked back. I mean, you ran from the prison, and you're like, alright, what can we do? What can we do to change this? How can we support others in similar situations? So, you know, so kudos to you, and thank you for, you know, doing what you do.
Barry Foy
we're still waiting, there are still people behind bars, that that need to gain their freedom. And so I think the one of the most active groups is definitely the last prisoner project, and we're behind them 100%. That's a wonderful group. And they do so much for people who are trying to get out and also for the families of the folks that are still behind bars, for cannabis reasons. And so they're, they're, they bring a lot to the table. And it's that's what it takes. And it's a very arduous, tough situation to get people out of jail once they're in jail, because the wheels of justice turn slow, no matter what you're in for. So hopefully, as the states come home, and become legal states, people will gradually be released. And, and not soon enough. Yeah.
David Paleschuck
We're going to ask everybody, how many outlawed types of outlaw brands there are. And we were going to ask you all that, but great jumping ahead right now just because of time. So there are five types of outlaw brands. The first one is a rebel brand. So the rebel brand is a rule breaker, a risk taker fed up with convention the rebel pushes the envelope to bring out change, social change with a fresh perspective, perspective or a reawakening the activist, maybe just slightly different, you know, the activist fights for cause somebody that we can join with and feel, you know, good in joining them, the gambler, which is really interesting, because Barry, you know, I was thinking, I was thinking the risk, you know, like, like me have the story you painted was beautiful and adventurous and you know, didn't really talk about the risk side. So the gambler is sort of something I always think about, you know, with an outlaw brand If, and, and then the maverick right, the free thinking Maverick rejects any sort of label or constraint, typically going against the grain I, I get the sense, Barry, you've got a maverick streak in you, you know, and then and then really the reformer, right, you know, which is a watchdog or a whistleblower, or, you know, maybe even maybe even, you know, the underdog, underdog, or that sort of feel to it. So, it's really interesting, just from a branding perspective, you know, how these things sort of come together or can come together and how people can really leverage a bad guy story into a good guy story into a hero story into the, you know, the underdog story. And I think, to be honest with you, I think you've got that. I mean, you're you've put in the time, both in the industry, and both in jail, I'm sorry to say. I think you're just in an amazing spot to capitalize on that. But it's more than that. It's more than that. It's to, you know, do the good things you're doing. And we appreciate that and be the reformer. That's right, the reformer.
Barry Foy
Looks like I’m all five. I love it. Definitely have to be a risk taker too, you know, do some of the things that we've done, and that's for sure, and gambler, as well. So we're even in the business today. Yes, it is a gamble. Because of the regulations are very tough. These days, the taxes are high. And so all that, you know, is something that we're trying to overcome, as well as not to be taxed out of the business or regulated out of the business. A lot of organizations do.
Adriana Hemans
Yeah. And also a topic that's pretty near and dear to my heart working at chorus compliance. But we'll get into more of that probably in another episode, I can't believe we're already close to the end of the show. So I just wanted to, first of all, thank you, Barry, and also ask you one last question. And that is about a recommendation, we'd love to hear from our guests. If there's a book or movie, or an experience that you would recommend for our audience. And for us, we want to hear it too.
Barry Foy
Well, the experience would be to continue to do what y'all are doing and push the envelope to get the word out, have people on in the cannabis business, have people that have cannabis experiences like myself to come on to share with the public? To me, that's the biggest thing we can do right now is to is to do what y'all are doing. And as far as a book goes, read operation jackpot. This is the book about the gentleman smugglers written by Jason Ryan. He would not like it if I didn't mention the book, which really started the whole movement for us 10 or 12 years ago, the book jackpot. So it's out there, you can get it anywhere Amazon your bookstores. So that would be my book. And it's a great book.
David Paleschuck
Well, where are they definitely check that out. Barry, thank you so much for spending time with us today and so much more beyond that. It's it almost seems silly for me to thank you for spending time with us today when you've spent time you know pushing, pushing for us pushing the envelope for us. So we thank you for all you've done. We thank you for all you continue to do. We're here to help you we're here to support you and gentleman smugglers and we really appreciate it.
Barry Foy
Thank you, David. Thank you, Adriana. I appreciate it.
David Paleschuck
Thanks Barry. Wow. I am super excited about our show next week. I will be leaving in in a day or so and heading out to Thailand to check out what's going on in Thailand and you know, it's cannabis has been legal for the last eight months. There's already over 900 dispensaries just in Bangkok alone. I won't be able to cover all of them, but I will certainly do my best. So we are really excited and we will be connecting live from Bangkok next week, Thursday, March 9th at 11am PST / 2pm EST when Adriana and I will be chatting about what's going on in Thailand. We hope you'll join us. Please check out the link that was posted earlier. Thank you, everybody, and we'll see you next week from Thailand. Bye!
Adriana: If you miss us in the meantime, you can re-watch today’s episode, or any of our previous episodes, on our LinkedIn page, Branding Bud Live, or on our YouTube channel. There are links in the chat, so give us a follow and register for next week’s event.
David Paleschuck
Join us every Thursday. Branding Bud Live 100% THC 0% WTF. Thank you everybody for joining in and participating. Thank you, Adriana. Thank you, Barry, and the team that supports us. See you next week. Check out www.brandingbud.com cannabis’s best-kept secret. Thank you!
Adriana Hemans
Bye bye!
